E-Klasse

"whoarder is tellurium" (whoarder) 12/02/2016 at 21:22 • Filed to: mercedes

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RallyWrench > whoarder is tellurium 12/02/2016 at 21:28

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I approve this message, with the caveat that W124>all the others.

whoarder is tellurium > RallyWrench 12/02/2016 at 21:30

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Yes

Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now) > whoarder is tellurium 12/02/2016 at 21:34

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These two... hnnnnnnnnnnnnnggggggggggg

bob and john > whoarder is tellurium 12/02/2016 at 21:35

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the one on vossens...jesus. my pants.

whoarder is tellurium > Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now) 12/02/2016 at 21:37

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sm70- why not Duesenberg? > whoarder is tellurium 12/02/2016 at 21:40

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fintail > RallyWrench 12/02/2016 at 22:02

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It’s nice that every generation has a highlight. MB’s bread and butter, and usually a sound choice.

I still have a little seller’s remorse about my W210 E55.

RallyWrench > fintail 12/02/2016 at 22:09

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Yep, in my opinion the E is the one line that Mercedes Benz has never screwed up too badly, precisely because it’s the bread and butter. They’ve cheaped out on the C, and tried half baked crap on the S, but the E, with very few exceptions, has been a safe bet.

I’ll bet there’s remorse on that E55, they’re a great car, a slightly more modern incarnation of the 500E. A client just bought one and we’ve been doing some fettling work on it, it’s really nice to drive.

fintail > RallyWrench 12/02/2016 at 22:16

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People bitch and moan about the W210, but I see a ton of worn looking ones still soldiering along at ~20 years old, so they must not be all bad. It’s the least risky choice in the lineup, easily.

My car was in nice shape, and was a rare color with somewhat unusual options (COMAND, ventilated seats). However, maintenance wasn’t cheap, and I felt like I was wasting it in the grinding suburban commute here where I could never hit 15mpg. The front bumper was prone to chips, which drove me nuts. Still, no regrets on ownership, it was reliable, and such a good cruiser:

Now I drive a W212 E250, different animal, but charming in its own way.

RallyWrench > fintail 12/02/2016 at 22:30

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Wow, fantastic color on that one! The 210 gets a bad rap from some, I understand it’s rust prone in other areas of the country, but it’s one of the few Benz cars I’d be happy to daily. The M112 and M113 may lack a bit of refinement but they’re both remarkably good engines, some of the best MBZ has ever made for my money. The transmissions last a long time if serviced well, the interiors are fairly strong... I see the occasional electrical problem, HVAC stuff, etc, but I’ve found them to be a very tough car. Better than the W211 with regard to service costs, no doubt.

We tend not to see newer models until they’re off warranty or the service program, but the 212 seems a big leap over the 211, as if Mercedes finally shook off the last of Daimler-Chrysler.

fintail > RallyWrench 12/02/2016 at 22:51

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My car was “Tectite Grey” with a “Condor” dark grey interior, and the grey-black maple wood.

Rust isn’t too big of a worry here, but I think it could happen with neglect, and rust is the achilles heel of turn of the century MBs. I knew the rule of thumb for the transmission was service at least every 50K, and you should be fine. Do the engine by the book. I did have a few electrical glitches and the AC had a couple hiccups, but it never stranded me. Many issues were cured under the aftermarket warranry (I buy used or lease, these aren’t things to buy new unless you keep it for 10 or more years). I would take one over a W211 E55, which is a few degrees more complex, and I don’t like the W211 dash design.

I think the W212 is almost like a 21st century W124. It’s a traditionally styled car with a somewhat angular interior. The 6cyl models can be spec’d pretty basic, and the diesels have a lot of appeal. The complexity of the modern AMGs scares me, although that TT V8 is an attractive idea. The final run TTV8 E550 is a tune-able sleeper, too.

RallyWrench > fintail 12/02/2016 at 23:08

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It remains to be seen how the TT engines last, but they sure are monsters. The diesels are nice but god forbid you have to pay for a decarbon service and oil cooler reseal. Seen them do over 300k in a 211 though, one that was used properly for a very long commute. They don’t suffer short trips well.

fintail > RallyWrench 12/02/2016 at 23:17

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I trust the turbos more than the old kompressor era cars- and those actually don’t seem too troublesome, mechanically anyway. I’ve read that the 6cyl diesel has the oil cooler leak issue, but I haven’t seen any mention of it for my little 4cyl. Just gotta do the maintenance I guess. I don’t have a long commute, but it is a slow one - I compare it to European taxi duty, which might be something the car was made for. I do take several long road trips a year, which I hope evens it out. The small diesel has some of the “old” MB sound and feel.

RallyWrench > fintail 12/02/2016 at 23:34

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All things considered the Kompressors are pretty good, at this age there’s a lot of vacuum and PCV issues but a strong engine. Most of their problem is the half-assed C-class they’re put it. I haven’t yet had any of the newer diesel fours in, looking forward to learning more on them.

fintail > RallyWrench 12/02/2016 at 23:51

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I was thinking of the V8 kompressor. I have heard many times to keep away from MY 03 cars, and airmatic/abc scares me too. Also something like a W220 AMG has appeal, but maintenance is terrifying to me - the payment or purchase is just the beginning. When I was younger I might have been more brave, but I don’t want the hassle of downtime.

Before I picked up the E250, a local Ford dealer (of all places) had a final run W211 E63 on the lot, a 2009 car with something like 17K on it, and P030, which I am sure you know is special and rare. It was almost tempting. They wanted the moon for it, but I am sure it was negotiable. Someone got a unique car.

The little diesel isn’t fast, but it more than adequate thanks to torque. Gentle cruising mpg is remarkable, 45mpg isn’t difficult. It’s smooth, comfortable, high material quality, solid styling - qualities that make the E class.

RallyWrench > fintail 12/03/2016 at 00:37

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Ah, I see. The blown V8s are rockets, but I wouldn’t own one. Mostly due to the cars they’re in though, the 215 and 220 are the half-baked cars I was referring to earlier. Nice when they’re right, but damn are they unnecessarily complex and ugly to a guy who cut teeth on W126s, and really all they do better is go faster. That said, Airmatic isn’t as much of a pain in the ass as the internet says, though every part of it will fail. Somewhat expensive as compared to the depreciated value of the cars, but not difficult to fix. It’s ABC that is bad news as they age, that system costs a fortune to fix and now those cars are 15 years old they’re losing hoses, tandem pumps, hydro legs, everything, and it’s all a million dollars and usually hard to access.

The E63 seems a really nice machine, we see a couple of those. The M156 is an all-time special engine. Good to know on that diesel, sounds better than BMW’s 2.0D.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > fintail 12/03/2016 at 10:56

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Of course I’m late to this conversation 

The 4 cylinder diesel isn’t known to have any issues as of yet aside from some exhaust after treatment stuff, but that usually presents itself early under warranty. 212's in general have been excellent cars so far and I would own any without hesitation, even without a warranty.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > RallyWrench 12/03/2016 at 10:58

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The 278 engines have been awesome so far. Really no remotely common issues cone to mind.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > RallyWrench 12/03/2016 at 11:07

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I’m so sad I missed this whole conversation 

210 is best, followed by 212

651 engine is great

Mercedes doesn’t really have any common issues on current generation engines. They’re doing an excellent job the last 4-5 years. But I’m not really counting the 271 in there because frankly that’s a modernized antique worth avoiding.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > whoarder is tellurium 12/03/2016 at 11:12

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No 213?

RallyWrench > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 12/03/2016 at 11:21

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I kept expecting you to show up last night to drop the knowledge. That’s been my impression as well, that they got their shit together after the mid-’00s doldrums.

I’ve only seen a few 278s just for maintenance, not enough for me to form an opinion, good to know they’re ok. No 651s in yet, glad to hear they’re good too. I saw my first turbo 271 in just recently, noticed that designation, and wondered how closely related it is to the old Kompressors. It sounds like MBZ has gone the opposite of BMW, whose engines have largely gone to shit.

whoarder is tellurium > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 12/03/2016 at 11:30

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*sigh*

fintail > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 12/03/2016 at 11:58

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That’s good to know. I keep an eye on the forums, and don’t see a lot of issues with them, usually random electrical faults which sometimes fade away on their own (German electricals, fun times). This might be a long term keeper, it would be nice if it aged as well under the hood as I think it will outside.

fintail > RallyWrench 12/03/2016 at 12:01

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I think 215 and 220 buyers were beta testing new tech - but they didn’t know it. The V12 ones are fascinating, but I know enough to keep away - if I want that cylinder count, a 140 will probably be easier financially and emotionally.

I haven’t heard anything really bad about the BMW diesels either. I prefer the little diesel to a normal 4 or even V6. When/if the I6 comes back, maybe that will be entertaining.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > RallyWrench 12/03/2016 at 12:03

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I have heard that a lot about BMW from a lot of people. 271 is the same as the old one, minus supercharger and conventional injection. Instead it has a turbo and direct injection. Same shit otherwise. lots of cam adjusters and high pressure fuel pumps.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > fintail 12/03/2016 at 12:11

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Yeah they’re great just don’t put gas in it. That’s about the only time they ever need work. And as for the electrical, that was mostly early 212's and was related to battery draws. Yours should be well past that stuff.

RallyWrench > fintail 12/03/2016 at 12:32

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The V12s aren’t at all a bad engine, as with the others it’s the surrounding car that comes up short.

The M57 BMW diesel six is a mess, they run really nice but have serious problems. I have one in the shop now with a broken timing chain, it hit the valves. A 335D needed thousands of dollars a couple months ago for injectors and carbon buildup.

RallyWrench > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 12/03/2016 at 12:47

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Yeah and as I say that as a lifelong “BMW guy”. Thanks for the insight in the 271.

fintail > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 12/03/2016 at 14:19

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I doubt I will ever make that mistake :)

I’ve had a couple W212s - only issue on the prior car was the telescopic steering wheel that retracts upon exist jammed. They took it apart, and it started working again, so no replacement. I disable that feature now, don’t want to tempt fate. The E250 has been flawless so far. Mine is a relatively loaded car (everything but drivers assist, which is very rare on a diesel), but this tech isn’t bleeding edge anymore.

fintail > RallyWrench 12/03/2016 at 14:22

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A W140 V12 is tempting - heart of a Pagani, timeless styling (esp sedan), last of the old school. But I only have room and budget for one project car, as I don’t want to tinker too much with a DD. The fintail is the project car.

I didn’t know that about the diesels, I only knew the 335 gassers have issues, and the older x45 cars can smoke. Maybe that’s why when, a few years ago when I was shopping near lease end, I looked at a 535d and the salesman said they would “give it away”.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > fintail 12/03/2016 at 14:30

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It’s not uncommon here, but we have pump jockeys, can’t fill our own tanks.

The steering column thing isn’t common either so I wouldn’t worry about it. But you’re right about the rest and I hope yours continues to be awesome. I just wish they brought the hybrid version of your car here, it’s rated for 70+mpg.

fintail > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 12/03/2016 at 14:33

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Orey-gone or Joisey?

I wish we had the diesel hybrid too, best of both worlds, especially with my driving. I am either in a grinding 11 mph average speed commute, or on a road trip. The commute is one reason I sold the E55 - I felt like it wasn’t fair to the car. 

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > fintail 12/03/2016 at 18:15

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Left coast best coast

I know what you mean about the E55. I sort of feel the same about mine, but I do get it out to stretch it’s legs now and then and use the throttle like there’s no tomorrow. speaking of which I should probably buy stock in continental tires.

fintail > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 12/03/2016 at 21:18

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I’m just up the road from you, where there is sales tax and houses cost 50% more.

I think I recall you mentioning an E55 yeah, I know I chatted with someone about one. I remember the $1300 set of PS2s on my E55. I’m over it, the roads here aren’t getting better, and traffic is getting worse. It was fun though, some of those on-ramp run ups were memorable, and it sounded nice with the resonator delete.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > fintail 12/04/2016 at 16:11

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Black on black/red with ventilated seats!

fintail > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 12/04/2016 at 16:34

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Nice, the red is definitely unusual. I’ve also seen blue, and the more usual silver. I had a C43 before the E55, it had the black and silver two tone. I initially thought it was a bit garish, but you adjust to it.

I took mine out in the snow a few times, including the big snow event here in 2008. It performed admirably, only one issue (having to stop at the base of a hill, and couldn’t get going again - cat litter cured the problem).

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > fintail 12/04/2016 at 16:50

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I searched for months to find that option combo. not a huge fan of silver or blue, but I love the red. Sone people hate it, but I don’t care it’s not their car.

That pic was from when I was driving back from buying it in Utah, in February. It was a little scary at times to be honest.

fintail > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 12/04/2016 at 21:06

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It’s so rare, I suspect MB people anyway would admire it simply based on that. Unusual color combinations (like my Indigo blue on brown W212) are interesting to me. I have seen a few unusual color W210 E55 other than mine - a desert silver/champagne color (I think this was a rare Designo car), white, Capri blue.

Low profile tires aren’t happy in snow.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > fintail 12/04/2016 at 21:54

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Most do admire it, but some have flat out said they hate it. Whatever. There’s a similar interior color on 211 E55's, but it’s even more rare. I love interesting color combos, and brown interiors on 212's are super nice.

fintail > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 12/04/2016 at 23:10

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Do you attend MBCA events? I suspect the anorak types at one of those meets would appreciate it. We haven’t had a W210 E55 at the Seattle events since I had mine.

I don’t recall seeing two tone in 211s, must be really uncommon.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > fintail 12/05/2016 at 01:40

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No. Sometimes I’ll do little meet up things with a local group of Mercedes owning friends, not affiliated with any official club. They all love it.

RT > whoarder is tellurium 12/17/2016 at 13:43

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I preferred it before it became a taxicab, but the E-Klasse is an extra classy car (pun intended).